Jill,
We have made a lot of progress in a very short while today. First, yes, the pH difference can surely cause this kind of problem/reaction in the fish, especially the smaller fish. Smaller water changes each time is the solution to that... even if it means you have to do them more frequently. 10% each day, 20% twice/wk is safer than 30% once/wk.
The 2nd thing I noticed that I need to mention is about the water conditioner. Excess amounts of most water conditioners in the water will drop the pH of the tank water. That in combination with pH in the tap water that fluctuates depending on weather, time of year, etc. could be the cause of your problem. The solution there is to be sure to only dose the water conditioner for the amount of clean water you are adding to the tank.
With those 2 changes in place you should see a noticeable difference in your fish, and should be able to resolve your current issues rather quickly. Be sure to test your tap water pH along with the water of your tank just prior to each change, watching for fluctuations in both of them as this progresses. Tap water should be checked for pH if not at every water change, for sure at change of season and during changes in weather during the course of the year.
Best of luck to you and your fish.
Dawn
Dawn Moneyhan
Aquatics Specialist/Nutritionist
To learn more about me go to
http://www.helium.com/users/449334
--- On Mon, 8/30/10, J Wilhelm-Sweeten <shobxrs2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: J Wilhelm-Sweeten <shobxrs2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [tropical fish club] Re: Unusual behaviour?
To: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 6:05 PM
Dawn, it does seem to affect only the smaller of the fish...the tetras, danios, feather fin rainbows. Not really noticing it in the drawf guarmi, rams or Angel Fish. Okay, couldn;t remember the exact ph level of the tap water as it had been some time since I tested it last. Just now tested it and it tested at 7.8 which is much higher than what I had tested it before. Tested my tank just now and it's 6.8. So quite a difference. Could the tap water have changed...I'm guessing yes, since it wasn't that high when I had tested before. I'm guessing this could be the culprit then. Right? It seems to affect the fish within about 6-8 hours. The dosage I'm using on the water conditioner is the full dose for the whole tank, not just for the amount of the new water I'm putting in. The plants do not seem to be affected in anyway. If the ph of the tap water is in fact the culprit, what are the solution options? Thanks for all your help
on
this!
Jill S.
--- On Mon, 8/30/10, Dawn Moneyhan <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Dawn Moneyhan <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [tropical fish club] Re: Unusual behaviour?
To: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 3:39 PM
Just from that little bit of information, while it doesn't give any clear indication of cause of death, it does tell me something. If the mouth would have been open then I would have suspected oxygen deprivation or pH shock... so we can basically rule those out as cause of death. Loss of color by itself doesn't tell much... especially not knowing the condition of the eyes.
Watch the remaining fish closely, get photos if another dies and try to take note of any little tiny thing that may be different about any fish that dies and make note of timing. If this one died at night, does the next one also die at night or during the day (or vice versa)? That even can add clues.
Also, I want to ask... this mysterious condition, does it affect all of the fish in the tank or just a certain species? How long after the water changes does this all begin? Have you tested the pH of the tank water and also the tap water to see how much difference there is between the 2? Are you checking water temp in the tank and also the tap water before you put it into the tank? Have you noticed any changes in your live plants through all of this?
The only other question I have at this time is about the Stress Coat... how much are you dosing each time? Are you treating the entire tank each time or just enough for the water you are replacing? A lot of people feel that water conditioners can't be overdosed, but that is untrue, and can have devastating effects on the fish and water chemistry.
Dawn
Dawn Moneyhan
Aquatics Specialist/Nutritionist
To learn more about me go to
http://www.helium.com/users/449334
--- On Mon, 8/30/10, J Wilhelm-Sweeten <shobxrs2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: J Wilhelm-Sweeten <shobxrs2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [tropical fish club] Re: Unusual behaviour?
To: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 4:55 PM
Wow, I never realized you could tell so much from a dead fish. It was a Serpae Tetra. I found it floating and the body was white, void of color and the fins were pale, but still had some color. I.m fairly certain the mouth was closed. Probably 12 hours since I'd seen it alive last. Never saw any unusual behavior in it before it died. Eyes were clear when I had seen it last, but not sure at death how the eyes were. Didn't look like there was any damage to the fish on the body or fins. Sorry I didn't pay more attention to how it looked, but this is all that I remember.
Jill S.
--- On Mon, 8/30/10, Dawn Moneyhan <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Dawn Moneyhan <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [tropical fish club] Re: Unusual behaviour?
To: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 2:45 PM
Jill,
Can you describe the condition of the fish when it died? There are many things a dead fish can tell us about how it dies... was the mouth open or closed? Were the eyes turning white or clear? Were the scales lifted? Any noticeable fin damage? Discoloration or damage around the gill plate area? Did the fish become bloated when it died? How long from the time you last saw it alive until you found it dead? Was it floating or did it sink? Did it begin to fungus quickly? Before it died, did it show symptoms of extreme distress such as erratic swimming, gasping, swimming upside down, etc.? These are all signs that point in certain directions... anything you can tell me would help.
If you should happen to lose another fish from this mysterious cause, lay it on a white paper towel and take a few photos of it, one of each side and one from above, one from below and one looking directly at the fish... and then either post them in a folder here in the group or send them to me. That could be enough to lead us to the source of the problem to prevent it from happening again.
Dawn
Dawn Moneyhan
Aquatics Specialist/Nutritionist
To learn more about me go to
http://www.helium.com/users/449334
--- On Mon, 8/30/10, J Wilhelm-Sweeten <shobxrs2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: J Wilhelm-Sweeten <shobxrs2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [tropical fish club] Re: Unusual behaviour?
To: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 2:55 PM
I'm not noticing any red gills, but they are at the surface as if feeding, but no food is there... if that makes sense. I did lose a fish this time after the water change. It died within 36 hours. This behavior usually lasts for 2-3 days, then it's over with. As I said before I do a 1/3 water change. Should I cut it back to a 1/4 water change and see if this makes a difference. I've checked the ph and ammonia levels coming out of the tap and it's at normal/acceptable levels, so know that can't be it. It's very bizarre and as I said before the 20 gal. tank doesn't seem to be affected. It is not planted as heavily as the 65 gal. tank.
Jill S.
--- On Mon, 8/30/10, tuvix72 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
From: tuvix72 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [tropical fish club] Re: Unusual behaviour?
To: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 10:16 AM
Stress coat should not be the cause of this... Do the fish dispay any kind of heavy breathing or redness around the gill area?
The odd thing is that once chloramines and heavy metals are dealt with by the water conditioner, I can't think of anything else that could last so long... gas content, oxygen levels, temperature and so forth would all be back to normal overnight but your fish seem to show this behaviour for days after a water change...
Giancarlo
--- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, J Wilhelm-Sweeten <shobxrs2@...> wrote:
>
> I change 1/3 of water every 2 weeks and use API's Stress Coat Plus for the water changes. This tank is also a planted tank and has been established for a year. I have a 20 gal. long that I change at the same time, using same products, but don't see this happening in that tank. I have a Eheim canister filter and the flow and return lines are set up at the corner of the tank with moderate flow.Â
>
>
> Jill S.
>
> --- On Fri, 8/27/10, tuvix72 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: tuvix72 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [tropical fish club] Re: Unusual behaviour?
> To: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, August 27, 2010, 11:19 AM
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
> As long as the return from the filter is causing some surface agitation/movement you should be fine as far as gas exchanges go, these are responsible for maintaining oxygen levels in the water. The height of the waterline doesn't really matter, it's more important the positioning of the return from the filter.
>
> Can you tell us more about your water changes and products used? For example how much you change each time and which product you use. Some water conditioners do deplete oxygen in the tank when used, but should be back to normal overnight. Could also be from other elements in your tap water that are not being removed... Knowing more about this will help us get a better idea.
>
> Giancarlo Podio
>
> --- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, J Wilhelm-Sweeten <shobxrs2@> wrote:
> >
> > Everytime I do a water change in my 65 gal. tank for the next few days after my fish seem to want to stay up at the surface, as if they need oxygen. My #'s are all at good levels when I check. I have a glass top covering the tank. My husband things I fill it too high and they aren't getting enough oxygen. I have a canister filter. I fill the tank up to about 1/4 - 1/8 inch from the top. Am I filling it too full and are they trying to get oxygen?
> > Â
> > Thaks for any input.
> > Â
> > Jill S.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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