Fish: Re: [tropical fish club] Infusoria was baby corys

John,
Don't feel bad about falling into that internet info source trap that so many other hobbyists get caught in. There's so much out there, now being written (or copied) on sites that look so authoritative that it's not always easy to know what right or wrong, unless you already know the basics of what you're trying to find out more about. Anyone can, and often do, put up a web site that for all intents and purposes looks very authoritative, even though they may not know the first thing about aquarium maintenance.

While it's quite convenient to turn to the web for information, there's no guarantee you're going to find accurate info all the time. As the old saying goes: "Believe nothing of what you hear (or, in this case, what you read) and only half of what you see." In other words, you need to learn enough so that you can judge for yourself, what's correct. The best sources for accurate information is still informative books written by well-recognized and authoritative authors. Anyhow, I'm glad you've taken my correction in the same vein in which it was meant -- to dispel any erroneous notions about what was being discussed -- and not as any criticism of you.

Now, as for your proposed remote deep sand bed -- My question is WHY? What is your purpose in incorporating a deep sand bed being colonized by anaerobic bacteria?

While this appears similar to fluidized-bed biological filters that are most often used with marine set ups, these same biological filters are, on occasion, used with freshwater set ups -- but they use aerobic bacteria. If you have any rate of flow, even a very slow movement, I can only see this water originating from your aquarium and being recirculated -- and this water will never have a low oxygen content -- or, do you have other plans which you haven't yet mentioned? Otherwise, where would you be getting this low oxygenated water from?

Anaerobic microbes are not the best biological method to use as a nitrifying cycle in eliminating your ammonia and nitrite, if this is your goal. This is far from the ideal method to be used in a nitrogen cycle, unless your purpose is denitrification -- removing your nitrate. But it's far more easier and practical to remove excess nitrate physically by PWC's, and in this way, partially remove all other contaminants at the same time (which denitrification by itself would not do).

To give you a quick answer to your question concerning more precisely which anaerobic microbes would exist in a deep sand bed, if your purpose is anaerobic ammonium oxidation to be used in concert with your aerobic ammonia oxidation, not only is there little need for it (as ammonium is not toxic), but it is not very efficient in the aquarium application. Your aquarium(s) would be far better served by expanding your aerobic nitrification filtration.

In the anaerobic deep sand bed having low-oxygen-content water slowly passing though it, for the purpose of breaking down organic waste or excess foods you would use microbes such as Bacillus subtilis and B. pumilus, among others, which are anaerobic bacteria such as what you're asking about. These can be obtained as Biozyme-50 (which contains a dozen different such bacteria) or Biozyme-100 (which contains 8 such different types of bacteria) -- to be seeded into your deep sand bed. As for feeding these bacteria, they require dead organic material (of any kind) -- matter that you would ordinarily want to remain completely eliminated from your aquarium system -- so why introduce this matter again just to feed these types of bacteria. These anaerobic bacteria are sometimes used to first establish your nitrifying cycle, as they'll break down any dead organic matter into ammonia, which is then used by your aerobic nitrifying bacteria to multiply. But once your cycle has been established, there's no further need for anaerobic bacteria. Ray

--- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, john Buford <jbuf@...> wrote:
>
> Ray,
> Even though I know better I fell into the trap of not double checking my sources especially with blind internet statements. There is something that I have been trying to track down for a long time and I can not find a real answer. I want to set up a remote deep sand bed for a fresh water tank. All of the reading so far seems to agree on 4 to 6 inches of sand and a very slow movement of low oxygenated water. What my question is; what anaerobic microbes would ideally exist in the deep sand bed? Secondly, what would I use to seed and nourish the anaerobes, hopeful jump starting the colony?
>
> TIA
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray <sevenspringss@...>
> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 2:03 PM
> To: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [tropical fish club] Infusoria was baby corys
>
>
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> Larry, Whoever wrote your link/reference to the description of what infusoria is has taken too free of a license in doing so. For starters, an infusion is the liquid extract in water of any kind of dead organic matter -- animal or vegetable -- not just vegetable matter, nor is it pulverized matter as in a suspension of particles. Nor does infusoria get their name because they originate solely (and directly) from vegetable infusions, as seems to be implied, but as an ultimate step in the food chain.
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> While infusoria can be said to originate from either animal or vegetable infusions, to describe them merely as such is to insinuate that they obtained their needed nutrition directly from these infusions, which is a misleading erroneous assumption. Infusoria feed on the bacteria, which in turn feed on the infusions. The animal or vegetable infusions are necessary for the culture of infusoria, but they don't feed on these infusions directly; their main food source is bacteria which are breaking down (decaying) and feeding upon the extracts of the dead organic matter. Ray
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> --- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, Larry Blanchard <labl@> wrote:
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> [The entire original message is not included]
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