I'm glad to hear that the fish are doing better. 2 things I would like to point out that may help in the future...
1. constipation in fish, when it happens, is usually a symptom of an underlying problem, so its a good idea to keep an eye on them for a while after they appear to be back to normal.
2. I did the math on this end and your figures for your aquarium volume are off by quite a bit. You listed volume as 140 liters, but the dimensions you posted for the tank actually works out to 243 liters, or 64.21 US gallons. Thats a big difference and important information for you to have. Knowing the size of the tank helps everyone, especially in cases of illness, medications, population/stocking, etc.
Dawn
Dawn Moneyhan
Aquatics Specialist/Nutritionist
To learn more about me go to
http://www.helium.com/users/449334
--- On Sat, 11/13/10, Greg <eastwoodcats@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Greg <eastwoodcats@hotmail.com>
Subject: Dawn and Ray Re: [tropical fish club] dropsy?
To: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, November 13, 2010, 9:54 AM
Hi there
sorry that could not reply sooner as had PC problems.
The good news is that both fish are 100 % fine now :-)
Wont go into all things but it ended being constipation that was relieved by peas and blood worms with both fish being kept in a seperate tank.
To answer some questions asked by Dawn and Ray the tank is well planted with live plants ,has a capacity of 140 litres (not sure of gallons sorry)...its a four footer 120cm x 45x45...one thing that i dont understand is why these two fish...one catfish and one danio both became constipated.
I feed the fish,flakes,bloodworms,brine shrimps and peas throughout the week..and this over the time i have had the tank set up ..any ideas as to why these two got sick?
--- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dawn,
> Well, I must say thast I completely missed any reference to a quarantine tank as being a "floating" tank, and one possibly positioned within the confines of the main tank -- and possibly sharing the same water & thus, medications. While I hadn't seen that part, I did specify moving the affected fish to a SEPARATE (meaning, COMPLETELY SEPARATE) container/tank for treatment. Anything less is unsuitable as it may subject some fishes to unneeded and unwanted medication if the meds were to dissipate into the main tank.
>
> Yes, we know there are a number of species that cannot tolerate very much , if any, medications -- especially those meds which would prove toxic to them when absorbed, and many would be with those fish.
>
> Ray
>
>
>
> --- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Moneyhan <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote:
> >
> > Ray,
> > It was not just the suggestion of the med that led to my long post, but also because in an earlier post when Donna asked about moving the fish, the "quarantine" was listed as being a floating tank, which I had to assume it was still in the main tank. I felt it important that it be understood that in a situation such as this, adding medication to such a floating tank will likely share the water in the main tank, which poses multiple risks to those other species of fish.Â
> > In regards to Kanamycin, I think its a great medication for fish who can handle it. It works great with goldfish, some of the large cichlids such as oscars, and even angels... I'm not knocking the med, just pointing out that it is important to be careful which fish are exposed to it. There are very few meds out there that are safe for all species of fish.
> >
> > I apologize if you took offense to my post, that was not my intention. Rather, I was doing as you were and trying to help the person with the problem and the animals involved to the best of my ability.
> >
> > Dawn
> >
> > Dawn Moneyhan
> > Aquatics Specialist/Nutritionist
> > To learn more about me go to
> > http://www.helium.com/users/449334
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 11/7/10, Ray <sevenspringss@> wrote:
> >
> > From: Ray <sevenspringss@>
> > Subject: Dawn and Ray Re: [tropical fish club] dropsy?
> > To: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Sunday, November 7, 2010, 1:48 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Dawn, I very much appreciate your added commentary. While I won't go into this response anywhere near the length of what you just offered (nor do I feel the need to), I'm sure by now you're well aware that I was really referring to you when mentioning that I'd recommend Kanamycin Sulfate -- even though I've seen contradicting reports HERE when I've prescribed it. As I fully expected -- you do not disappoint!!! You of course came through again as dissapproving of this medication -- for reasons that I see only as unfounded. Kanamycin Sulfate is one of the most useful antibiotics that can be used for internal issues as it's one of the very few medications readily absorbable internally, where internal issues lye and are needed. Yup, getting to know you fairly well.
> >
> >
> >
> > As for using this medication on Loaches, Glass Catfish and Neons -- and even Mollies -- I totally AGREE with you in that it is NOT ADVISED to do so. If you will re-read (as it seems necessary for you to do so) my post, I stated that -- You may choose to treat them accordingly WHERE ALL ELSE FAILS, with MOVING THEM to a SEPARATE CONTAINER. By this, you can see no other fish will be subjected to any medication.
> >
> >
> >
> > In other words, if none of us can come up with a diagnoses -- and thus do not untimately know what actual treatment to use because of a lack of diagnosis -- that instead of allowing the fish to die without doing anything -- that at least an antibiotic may be used where all other considerations have failed rather than to let the fish go completely untreated without doing anything to help them (when they would otherwise die) -- WITH TRANSFERRING THE AFFECTED FISH TO A SEPARATE TANK OF THEIR OWN -- AWAY FROM ALL THE OTHER FISH -- TO THEN BE TREATED AS THE ONLY OTHER COURSE TO PURSUE in hopes that at least some type of action may offer them help instead of doing nothing and having them secumb from inaction or complete indifference.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ray
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, Dawn Moneyhan <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > As Ray, I have been following this thread and have been waiting for water parameter readings before really offering much for suggestions. At this point, I agree, we don't have enough information to suggest a proper or safe treatment. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH should all be checked, not just to help diagnose the problem, but also to make sure the water chemistry is within a safe range to accept medications if indeed they are needed.Â
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I am also wondering at the size of this tank? A "4 ft tank" does not offer much for size range... this could be 55 gallons, 75 gallons, etc.  What I can say, for that size of a tank, that is an awful large population of fish and if it is not at present (because fish are young), will become very overcrowded, which also has me wondering about filtration, water change/maintenance schedule, feeding schedule and how much food goes into the tank at a time (and how often), and if there are any live plants in this tank? All of those things will tell us a lot about this tank and its current situation, and would better help us to diagnose the problem and offer a solution. If the number of gallons of this tank are unknown, we can help to determine that by using the tank's dimensions, but this requires length, width, and height together.Â
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I also agree with Ray that there are a number of possibilities to explain the symptoms thus far described. The spiral swimming alone is not enough to properly diagnose a problem and suggest a treatment. Photos of the sick fish help a lot, as a trained eye can often see things in a photo that are easily missed by someone with less experience. Photos of the entire tank are also usually quite helpful, but please be sure the photos are clear. (blurry pics don't ofter much in way of answers)
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Ok... here it comes... I am going to disagree with Ray about one thing. I feel it is too early to name any specific medication, and I say this for 2 reasons. First, because we are not sure yet what the problem is, and 2 because it is not clear whether there is a quarantine tank available in this situation. Kanacyn/Kanamycin is not a medication I would be using on a number of species of fish in that tank, especially the loaches, but including the glass catfish and neons if the meds are dosed directly into the water. Mollys do not always react well to Kanacyn/Kanamycin either. Because Kanacyn/Kanamycin is absorbed directly through the skin and in most cases, very quickly.. using it with scaleless fish in the tank can be quite dangerous.Â
> >
> > > (Sorry Ray, but you saw it coming as you mentioned that others may disagree with you, lol I guess that means you are getting to know me, huh?)Â
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Something else I would like to add about medications in an aquarium... not all meds are created equal. There are some medications and some ingredients in medications that are not well tolerated by some species of fish, and some that can be deadly to certain species. I get quite upset when I talk with manufacturers about their fish medication products because most of them fail to put any warnings about use with certain types of fish, warnings that can mean the difference between life and death based on 1 ingredient or the amount of 1 ingredient in that particular medication. I say this now because Ray mentioned about broad spectrum antibiotics. I have seen many hobbyists take generalized suggestions such as that and go on a shopping spree, bringing home whatever "broad spectrum" medication they can find at a given time, without first knowing the consequences of doing so.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > There are some meds, such as TMP, that are well known to cause allergic reactions in people if handled without proper precautions, such as rubber gloves and face mask. The effects of TMP on people can range from severe skin rash that burns to respiratory distress/failure, so these precautions should not be taken lightly. My former boss is highly allergic to TMP and I have seen what happens when he gets too close to it, even if he is not handling it himself. His last venture with it landed him in the hospital for a few days.Â
> >
> > >
> >
> > > If it helps, I would like to offer some background info about myself for those here who don't know me. I have been specializing in fish medicine for about 10+ yrs now, and am familiar with the various ingredients used in the meds and how they affect the various species of fish. I was trained by some of the best in the field and have worked alongside a number of aquatic vets and vet techs over the years. I have performed successful surgeries, assisted with others, performed many necropsy and biopsy procedures, and a large amount of my own personal research in the medical field, both book/academic study and hands on research/experimental procedures. I have also worked with the vast majority of available medications over the past 10+ yrs with a range of fish species to include almost everything available to the retail market and including some that are not so common.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I will continue to watch this thread and offer any suggestions I can once the above asked for information is made available. Please be aware that as this thread progresses, more questions will likely arise from those of us trying to help. Please don't feel offended if our answers are not prompt or if the list of questions seems a bit endless. These situations can often take time to sort out, and treating something too soon can have some deadly results. Misdiagnosing of illness, offering of improper medication suggestions, and not paying attention to details is often more deadly than waiting while things get sorted out. I know I can safely speak for Ray as well as myself when I say that we would hate to see something awful happen because we did not take the time to properly diagnose a problem. I know that is not my style, and from what I know of Ray, that is not his style either. We are 2 individuals who care deeply about
the health and
> >
> > > safety of everyone's fish.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > DawnÂ
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Dawn Moneyhan
> >
> > > Aquatics Specialist/Nutritionist
> >
> > > To learn more about me go to
> >
> > > http://www.helium.com/users/449334
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > --- On Sat, 11/6/10, Donna King <donnalynneking@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > From: Donna King <donnalynneking@>
> >
> > > Subject: Dawn and Ray Re: [tropical fish club] dropsy?
> >
> > > To: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > Date: Saturday, November 6, 2010, 11:52 AM
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > ÂÂ
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Lets see what Ray and Dawn suggest on this.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Donna
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > ________________________________
> >
> > >
> >
> > > From: Greg <eastwoodcats@>
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Thank you again!
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > It may be mad but its 3 am and woke up to see how my two sick fish
> >
> > >
> >
> > > are!Especially the catfish as was given to me by a friend who has gone
> >
> > >
> >
> > > overseas...said fish is 3 years old..my friend says he doubts its dropsy but is
> >
> > >
> >
> > > not sure...i will capture the catfish and danio and try the fasting and
> >
> > >
> >
> > > bloodworms...hopefully will work :-)I have a small float tank ...about 50 cm in
> >
> > >
> >
> > > length...catfish and danio appear swimming 'drunk'...will let you all know.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I usually give them bloodworms once or twice a week and peas about 3-4 times a
> >
> > >
> >
> > > week...it is funny how the mollies love them.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Thanks again
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Greg
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > --- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, Donna King <donnalynneking@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > It good your getting things tested again and that you don't see any pine-cone
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > effect on any of the fish.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > You could try feeding some frozen brine shrimp or frozen blood worms to see if
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > they are constipated or fast them 3 days and then feed the inside of a cooked
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > pea or the inside of a canned pea. You'll need to remove what doesn't get ate.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > The loach won't be able to take medications at the level you'll need to use to
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > treat these other fish if you need to treat them, do you have a place to move
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > him or the other fish if the other's here think you need to treat?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Donna
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > From: Greg <eastwoodcats@>
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > dropsy?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Hi again Donna,
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > I am going to go to the Aquarium store that I usually go to to do some tests
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >for
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > me but had a friend come over and check tghings for me as was worried that
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > something was wrong.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > I have been monitoring the ph and its steady on neutral,the nitrate count was
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > around 20ppm.I have had the tank set up since may and first problem i have had
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > ...I have not added any fish since August.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > I have a four foot tank..which has mollies(6),cherry barbs (10),neons(10),glass
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > catfish (5),bronze catfish (4) albino catfish (2) Kuhli loach (5)and pink zebra
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > danios (4)...on a happier side it appears i havde a ver pregnant female black
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > molly.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > None of the fish appear bloated and dont look "pine cone'
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > thanks again
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Greg
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > --- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, Donna King <donnalynneking@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > We'll need more information. Test your tank water for ammoina, nitrite,
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >nitrate
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > and pH we need to know this information. Ask the store to use liquid test
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >kits
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > and write down the numbers in PPM's (parts per million). How long is "just
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >set
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > up" How fast did you add fish and when did you add them also how many? What
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > water treatments are you using? Are these fish swollen?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > Donna
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > ________________________________
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > From: Greg <eastwoodcats@>
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > hi there
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > thank you from Australia from someone who has been learning a lot from you
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >guys
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > :-)
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > I have just started my first four foot tank and have a few questions that I
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >hope
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > that you can help with .I fear from what I have read and now seeing that two
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >of
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > my fish have "dropsy "as they are swimmimg in spiral motions and cant stay
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > "upright"...one is an albino catfish the other a Pink zebra danio....Is this
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > dropsy and what if anything can be done...I have changed the water and ph is
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > fine...
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > The other is a happy thing...I think...I have 5 "glass catfish'they are
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >curious
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > souls and finally after 5 days emerging from the log while light is on...I
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >have
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > feed the fish a very small amount when the light off as well as I was worried
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > that the glassies would not get food as they seem very active at night in
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >ptch
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > dark.Should I still continue to feed a little when dark or will they be ok
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >and
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > eventually swim when light on....thanks GUYS!!
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No comments:
Post a Comment