Hi Paul,
I regret that I was unable to get beck to you yesterday on this, but I was at a day-long fish auction, which I not only attended but also helped run, as the auction was a function of my local fish club (NJAS). So, as I hope you can see, this was not something I could just go to and come away from at any time, not that an answer here from me would solve your problem very quickly anyhow. As for new copper pipe remaining toxic to fish for some extended period of time, it will first need to develop a "patina" inside of the pipe as a barrier to its being dissolved readily. New copper will remain as being the shiney metal we know it as, when will retain its ability to be dissolved in water until this patina is built up on its surface
I did suspect that any additives in a water conditioner you might use would not detoxify the free-copper in your pipes (which I already stated), which is beginning to look like the actual problem even if still not defined as such. Your addition of API Tap Water Conditioner should have "neutralized" any chloramine with the recommended triple dose used, as advertised, so we've eliminated that problem. One thing to keep in mind when tripling the dose, as per API's instructions when using the product for detoxifying chloramine vs chlorine, is to increase the aeration to maintain a sufficient balance of oxygen which these products use in converting ammonia to ammonium. Since you Guppy died in 8 hours, rather than in an hour, this would seem to indicate it's death is somehow tied to chloramine and/or the process put in place to neutralize it. If this fish's death were caused by copper poisoning, the addition of a dechloraminator should not prolonged the fish's life, unless the heavy metal eliminator additive had partially worked. This possibility would still be cause to test the water, and probably even more so.
Have you allowed to let the tap run for several minutes before using the water, to flush out any build-up of copper that would accumulate as it sits? I would still recommend getting a copper test kit and first -- test your aquarium water -- then, test your tap water for dissolved copper -- then, test your tap water for copper after flushing it. This would indicate how long you may need to flush the lines before use if the water showed reduced amounts of copper after 2 minutes of flushing but not low enough to be non-toxic.
If you enjoy the hobby and are intent enough to want to remain in it, such a problem as copper in your water source should not stop you. You could always fall back on an R/O (reverse osmosis) unit, "cutting" it with a small portion of mineral water from your super market. You wouldn't need a large proportion of bottled water to mix with the R/O, since (except for the Guppies) you have soft-water fishes. An alternative would be to just add a Rift Lake buffer to the R/O water in proportions you find necessary with whatever you're keeping -- which would probably be cheaper than buying even relatively small amounts of bottled water when doing partial water changes. Good Rift Lake buffers (meant for maintaining those East African Cichlids) contain trace elements to promote some necessary osmotic pressure to the fish which would otherwise be absent without these additives. Since Guppies prefer harder water, you'd just add more of the buffer to their water, along with crushed coral in their filter.
Ray
--- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <Plwg000@...> wrote:
>
> I treated the water with triple the high dose of API Tap Water Conditioner. Instead of the guppy dying in an hour, it died in 8 hours.
>
> I'm out of the hobby:
> Very nice breeding pair of gold angel fish for $40. Colony of 7 very nice Sterbai Corys for $25. A full grown male bristle nose pleco for $3. Guppies for $1 each. Minus the 1 dead male guppy in my test tank, I have about 5 males, and 3 very fat females and about 15 babies (for free if you anybody who wants all 8 of my adult guppies.)
>
> I was looking forward to breeding the Corys and a discus pair I was set up to purchase, but I doubt the water will get better for awhile.
>
> Reminds me of when I had a fish room in the 90s. After 5-6 years of breeding angelfish, the water turned rock hard within a 4-8 week period and I was unable to produce angelfish, and closed down.
>
> Email me privately if anybody wants my fish. They are really nice specimens. Pick-up only in the Los Angeles, CA area.
>
> Paul
>
> --- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote:
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > It's entirely possible for new copper piping to have poisoned your fish, depending on the extent of the replacement. As Dawn suggest, you'll need to get a copper testing kit to determine if the level of copper is toxic to fish. You may need to use a water conditioner which neutralizes heavy metals, as Donna mentions, although most of the advertising I see associated with these water conditioner properties (including on their labels) state that they neutralize heavy metals and chelated copper, which is telling me that it neutralizes copper having already been chelated. If this is the meaning of their terminology (as I read it), and as the copper being dissolved in these pipes is still quite active and far from being inert, so it is not subjected to the process of the heavy metal water conditioner additive as already in a chelated state, and as such may not be neutralized by the conditioner as I understand their advertising to say.
> >
> > The safest approach would be to allow your tap to run for several minutes before using the water for the aquarium, especially if this copper pipe replacement is on the outlet side of your water heater where the water becomes quite hot. Hot water will dissolve more copper than will cold water. This is not to say that the cold water tap should not be run for a while also, before using it for the aquarium, as copper can still build up in there.
> >
> > Not being totally convinced that your problem is copper though, without seeing test results for it, I would suggest here that perhaps you are using the wrong type of water conditioner (or may not be using a water conditioner at all), which will result in your fish deaths if you have chloramine added to your water by your water supplier, if you are using a conditioner having only a chlorine remover or have neglected to use a conditioner.
> >
> > If test results do determine that your copper is elevated in your water as a result of the new pipes, you can expect it to take several years before the copper stops leaching from this new piping.
> >
> > Ray
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <Plwg000@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I put a breeding pair of angelfish in a new 20 gallon aquarium, left for an hour and a half and came back to find both fish dead. A couple of days earlier my landlord replaced the old plumbing with new copper pipes.
> > >
> > > Did the new pipes kill the fish? Was it the most likely the copper? How long before I can use the water?
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> >
>
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