I'm glad to see the level of copper is undetectable. Your money on buying a copper test kit did not go to waste. At least now, you're assured that copper is not your problem -- and that your water is safe from its possible effects. As Dawn suggests, and which I don't recall you mentioning, it would be prudent to test all of your water parameters -- even giving us the results of these tests, in numbers. Ammonia and nitrite can be absolute killers in the aquarium. Dawn, while (as you see) I go along with you on this possibility, you may need to be reminded that his Angels expired after having been newly introduced to his 20 gallon aquarium after only an hour and a half. For ammonia to build up this fast with this bioload in 20 gallons is impossible; it might take a 10" Oscar in a 2 gallon tank to promote a toxic waste level in this short amount of time. Still, Paul, you may have high levels of ammonia and/or nitrite in your tap water right from the beginning, such as what Donna has to deal with regularly, so testing for them would be the next step.
I'm inclined to revisit your water conditioner at this stage, which I'm not totally convinced is doing an adequate job. The API product labeled simply as "Tap Water Conditioner" directs the user to use 1 drop per gallon for chlorine and 3 drops per gallon for chloramine. It's highly unusual for one product to address both issues. Water conditioners are usually manufactured and specified to either remove chlorine or remove/convert chloramine, but normally not both. I don't know the processes of each and every water conditioner on the market, and do not know the chemical process used with this conditioner, but this one may just remove the chlorine from its bond with ammonia without converting the ammonia to harmless ammonium.
Then too, if your tap water's level of ammonia is elevated -- or, your water supplier is presently using more chloramine than normal -- this 3 drops per gallon as directed may not be enough to render the chloramine non-toxic. While this may be even more of a reason to test your tap water, I would recommend switching to a water conditioner recognized and relied upon to do a better job of addressing the chloramine issue -- such as SeaChem's "Prime." Rarely is a product designed to remove only chlorine, also useable to do a good enough job to neutralize chloramine, although I'm not saying it can't -- I'm just suspect of it, even though API is well respected. So, try looking in this direction after testing your water more thoroughly and consider getting another (better?) water conditioner.
Ray
--- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <Plwg000@...> wrote:
>
>
> I tested the water with an API test kit but it did not detect any copper. I tested the test kit by dropping in some copper supplement and it turned a dark brown so I know the test kit works.
>
> If not copper, any ideas what the problem could be? Something else in the new pipes?
>
> Paul
> --- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <Plwg000@> wrote:
> >
> > I treated the water with triple the high dose of API Tap Water Conditioner. Instead of the guppy dying in an hour, it died in 8 hours.
> >
> > I'm out of the hobby:
> > Very nice breeding pair of gold angel fish for $40. Colony of 7 very nice Sterbai Corys for $25. A full grown male bristle nose pleco for $3. Guppies for $1 each. Minus the 1 dead male guppy in my test tank, I have about 5 males, and 3 very fat females and about 15 babies (for free if you anybody who wants all 8 of my adult guppies.)
> >
> > I was looking forward to breeding the Corys and a discus pair I was set up to purchase, but I doubt the water will get better for awhile.
> >
> > Reminds me of when I had a fish room in the 90s. After 5-6 years of breeding angelfish, the water turned rock hard within a 4-8 week period and I was unable to produce angelfish, and closed down.
> >
> > Email me privately if anybody wants my fish. They are really nice specimens. Pick-up only in the Los Angeles, CA area.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > --- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Paul,
> > >
> > > It's entirely possible for new copper piping to have poisoned your fish, depending on the extent of the replacement. As Dawn suggest, you'll need to get a copper testing kit to determine if the level of copper is toxic to fish. You may need to use a water conditioner which neutralizes heavy metals, as Donna mentions, although most of the advertising I see associated with these water conditioner properties (including on their labels) state that they neutralize heavy metals and chelated copper, which is telling me that it neutralizes copper having already been chelated. If this is the meaning of their terminology (as I read it), and as the copper being dissolved in these pipes is still quite active and far from being inert, so it is not subjected to the process of the heavy metal water conditioner additive as already in a chelated state, and as such may not be neutralized by the conditioner as I understand their advertising to say.
> > >
> > > The safest approach would be to allow your tap to run for several minutes before using the water for the aquarium, especially if this copper pipe replacement is on the outlet side of your water heater where the water becomes quite hot. Hot water will dissolve more copper than will cold water. This is not to say that the cold water tap should not be run for a while also, before using it for the aquarium, as copper can still build up in there.
> > >
> > > Not being totally convinced that your problem is copper though, without seeing test results for it, I would suggest here that perhaps you are using the wrong type of water conditioner (or may not be using a water conditioner at all), which will result in your fish deaths if you have chloramine added to your water by your water supplier, if you are using a conditioner having only a chlorine remover or have neglected to use a conditioner.
> > >
> > > If test results do determine that your copper is elevated in your water as a result of the new pipes, you can expect it to take several years before the copper stops leaching from this new piping.
> > >
> > > Ray
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <Plwg000@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I put a breeding pair of angelfish in a new 20 gallon aquarium, left for an hour and a half and came back to find both fish dead. A couple of days earlier my landlord replaced the old plumbing with new copper pipes.
> > > >
> > > > Did the new pipes kill the fish? Was it the most likely the copper? How long before I can use the water?
> > > >
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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