Fish: Re: [tropical fish club] Fw: [FroggyFriends] For your reading enjoyment!

Lynne,
I didn't forget you, sorry I haven't been here much the past few days. We had a major issue here, almost had my house burned down when my oven malfunctioned. I've been busy trying to find a new one/replace it.
I see Ray has addressed the KH & GH info for you. I haven't had time to read it all yet, but I trust he was thorough. :-) (Thanks Ray!)

I will get to the info for the set up for 1 ACF as soon as I can. Sorry for the delay, but I've had very minimal pc time, hopefully things get back to normal really soon.

Dawn

Dawn Moneyhan
Aquatics Specialist/Nutritionist
To learn more about me go to
http://www.helium.com/users/449334

--- On Sun, 8/28/11, konservatorietdance@yahoo.com <konservatorietdance@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: konservatorietdance@yahoo.com <konservatorietdance@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [tropical fish club] Fw: [FroggyFriends] For your reading enjoyment!
To: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "Konservatoriet.2@gmail.com" <Konservatoriet.2@gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, August 28, 2011, 6:58 AM

THANKS RAY!

This will be an enormous help ~ not only to me, but to the "frog-people" who

need more details, which you've so kindly provided.

The bag I have of "Coral Sand" is labeled such, but it's physically more like

small pieces of gravel. I can try crushing it for better effect...but will

search out the CaribSea product asap: easier than pounding little rocks, I'm

sure!

I was aware that Baking soda was not considered a long-term solution, so am

grateful for your input.

Yes..you set me straight re: Betta not needing harder water (thanks!), but the

frog needs to be goosed up a bit....keeping steady numbers has been difficult

there! Also important to pass on to the FF members: we've had some using

cuttlebone, coral sand (etc)...but still having trouble getting the GH up to

where it should be; a few sort of casual mentions re: Epsom Salts...but I feel

the kind of detail you've just given is what was needed.

Gypsum? I'll ask my son...he's a builder!

THANKS AGAIN!

Lynne

________________________________

From: "sevenspringss@wmconnect.com" <sevenspringss@wmconnect.com>

To: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sat, August 27, 2011 10:05:48 PM

Subject: Re: [tropical fish club] Fw: [FroggyFriends] For your reading

enjoyment!

Lynne,

I'm getting back to your question on -- How to raise the KH and GH without

raising the pH?

Is this just for general information, or do you think you need more

buffering capacity to prevent the pH from dropping into the acid zone? Raising

the

GH without raising the pH is no problem, and even though there is a tie

between the GH and KH, there is a different tie between the KH and the pH.

This should be obvious, if your intent is to keep the pH from dropping by

using bicarbonates (sodium bicarbonate) to increase your KH. Getting to

bicarbonates first though, and without going too heavy into chemistry, you need

to realize that Sodium Bicarbonate (actual full name -- Sodium Hydrogen

Bicarbonate -- which nobody ever calls it) has a chemical symbol of NaHCO3. In

other words, this compound is composed partially of Hydrogen.

As the amount of free Hydrogen in water dictates what the pH will be, when

this buffer (Baking Soda, for another name) is acted upon by an acid it can

lose its buffering capacity very fast (can break down very fast) -- which is

one reason why KH is also called Temporary Hardness. If you want the

effects of the buffer (KH) that you used to be more lasting, don't use Baking

Soda as it may cause pH bounce -- and may also precipitate as a fine white

powder over every service in the tank; not that it always will, but it may,

depending on the amount of influence of the acid. pH bounce is never good for

fish and probably not for frogs either. I believe Alyce is experiencing

problems with having to constantly add baking soda just to maintain where she

wants to keep the pH.

For more lasting buffering capacity where the KH ( and with it, the pH)

will remain more constant without bounce and without having to constantly add a

Bicarbonate, use a Carbonate instead -- just as I told you to add to your

filter. Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) does not contain Hydrogen in its chemical

make-up; it is more stable! As you've found out, coral is just that --

Calcium Carbonate.

While on the subject of coral, since it was so easy to pick out of the

gravel, I should have asked you if you were just using small pieces of broken

coral or whether you were using crushed coral, as should be used for

increasing the pH (?). CaribSea offers a product called Florida Crushed Coral

(mined

fossil Aragonite) to increase your pH. As you've seen from my

recommendation, you don't need much of it, and you initially only need to add it

once

(but in a controllable nylon bag, which you can remove in an instant to change

the amount of its contents, dependent upon the level your pH has reached);

it then slowly dissolves over time. As it dissolves (and it takes time),

you'll need to replace the missing amount with a small additional quantity of

it, but not very often as it lasts a good while.

Now, getting back to your original question, yes, you may increase the GH

without increasing the pH, if you feel you need harder water. -- just by

adding a hardening mineral, but just don't add a Carbonate. Instead, add a

Sulfate that contains such a hardening mineral -- like Magnesium. To increase

the GH without increasing the pH, just add Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom salts)

-- this will not influence your pH. It will not influence your buffering

capacity either, though, but only the permanent/general hardness (GH).

You do realize by now, that your Betta does not need hard water though,

right? If you feel the frogs would do better in hard water, this is the way to

do it. If it has the same effect on frogs that it has on fish though,

don't add too much as the effect it has on freshwater fish is that it acts as a

laxative, although it doesn't take very much to harden the water so you

don't need to use much. Sea (marine) water is composed of about 16% Magnesium

Sulfate, so I guess Marine fishes must have a greater tolerance for this

compound as far as it affecting their digestive system.

If you prefer, you can use Calcium Sulfate (gypsum) instead. It's harmless

to fish and is easily found if you know of anyone remodeling, as gypsum is

what wallboard is made of.

Ray</HTML>

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