Byron,
With all due respect, it may just be that my rebuttal doesn't fit only with
your scrutiny -- although I'm open to anything I may have missed. But
first, as to some ammonia getting past the plants and establishing some
bacteria, even though at a lower level of population -- I've already said that, and
totally agree with it. This is a given, and a foregone conclusion. I
stated that; with plants using the ammonia, the nitrogen cycle will never get
established, as they'll (the bacteria, if you're following me) be largely
starved out. Note, I said "largely" starved out, not completely starved out.
So, sure, the relatively little ammonia left in the water column that the
plants don't consume will be eaten by the nitrifying bacteria -- and they will
multiply up to the point of what that small amount of ammonia will permit
them to do, to the extent of how much bacteria this smaller amount of food can
nourish them.
And, while the nitrite-oxidizing bacteria (in addition to the
ammonia-oxidizing bacteria) will also populate -- also, in much smaller amounts -- none
of these bacteria populations will be large enough to convert the organic
wastes of a normal bioload of fishes, as their populations will never be
allowed to reach the proportions needed. In effect, the tank will not be cycled
with a sufficient amount of bacteria to be considered as being able to
maintain the water in a toxic-free state for the fishes without the help of the
plants. Such a tank will never be fully cycled to the equivilent of being
able to convert all the fish waste, in the absence of ammonia-consuming plants,
if they were ever to perish or be removed/transplanted to other aquaria.
While live plants are a help in keeping the ammonia level down, I see them as
a tool not to be relied upon, as a replacement for nitrifying bacteria.
There are many hobbyists who just don't know which plants to use and which
plants not to use, when employing them as ammonia consumers (not all aquatic
plants can use ammonia as a food).
Now, if the nitrifying bacteria were to be allowed to cycle to the
equivilent of converting the organic waste of the bioload of fishes present in the
tank, in the absence of these plants, there would be much larger populations
of the bacteria permitted to colonize the filter and all other surfaces.
While adding plants after a full cycle is allowed to be established will
reduce the amount of available ammonia, I have to disagree with you if your
position is that the plants will still sufficiently out-compete the bacteria for
this food, as to substantially reduce their numbers. With so much more
bacteria now present, as first being allowed to multiply, the shear numbers of
these bacteria would be able to use most -- although, of course, not all --
the ammonia given off by the fishes, in a normally planted tank. A "normally
planted tank," however can not only be subjective, but if one purposely
overloads the tank with plants in efforts to use them to consume the ammoina
rather than the bacteria, then sure, any large multitude of ammonia-consuming
plants would hardly leave 0.01 ppm of ammonia left as bacteria food.
If it's your choice to rely largely on plants to keep the ammonia in check,
that's your prerogative, but it's still my opinion that it's running a risk
not to have a fully cycled tank running, with sufficient populations of
nitrifying bacteria. I certainly cannot condone it on here, especially as for
one consideration, as these ammonia-consuming plants (even though they are
many) have not been identified to the membership, and, unless they're aware
that removing the full (or large portion) compliment of these plants will
result in the much smaller than needed populations of bacteria not being able
to address the now-rising ammonia level, their fishes will be subjected to
toxic conditions of a mini-cycle. Without the membership knowing the all the
aspects of using plants over cycling their tanks, it would be irresponsible
for me to approve of this method if they did not know not to ever remove
their plants -- or if they had a plant population die-off if, for example, they
needed to raise their temp to a range that will "melt" some plant species,
when needing to treat a disease.
Yes, I'm sure most of the members are aware of Flourish Excel's limits --
and dangers if overdosed -- and I was not trying to use this as any kind of
example of an ammonia substitute, as we all know it's liquid carbon. As for
"overdosing" (and it's possible with any product when not being careful),
there are more milder products (even including some meds) such as this, which
if used improperly (overdosed) can be equally toxic to fishes. Nothing
should be purposely overdosed for any reason. This product (Flourish Excel)
has been covered on this List many times in the past. It may be used at
normal dosage as a plant food (of another type), especially in the absence of a
CO2 injector -- can even be used to control some algae, but this is getting
off the thread. Even in normal dosages though, as has been explained here
also a number of times, it will melt Valisneria and Anacharis/Elodea.
Ray
.
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