Fish: Re: [tropical fish club] any reefers

Dianne, let me clarify a few things for you and correct some of the info you've listed here. First lets talk salt water. Premixing saltwater is an absolute must except for the initial filling of the tank (where it can be mixed right into the tank of water), and it takes at least 48 hrs to get an accurate salinity reading from it, as well as a power head/pump put into the mixing vat or bucket (or tank) to keep constant circulation. I would also urge you to get your tap water tested for phosphates and nitrates before even considering using it for a marine tank. While those things can be problem causers in freshwater, they can be nightmares for a marine tank. You will also need a hydrometer or refractometer to check the salinity of your water. Expect to do this all the time, never do a water change without first checking the salinity in your tank and then the salinity of the premixed water you intend to use for the clean water. Too much salt
is just as bad as not enough, especially when dealing with a reef. There is a very narrow range that the animals can thrive in. This is something you'll need to check when you research your animals, too. Not all of them thrive in the same salinity as others and what seems like a slight change to us can mean life or death to them. Many animals that thrive in spg/salinity of 1.023 don't do very well with those who require 1.026, some can't handle that slight of a change at all. So an accurate spg/salinity reading is vital to a healthy tank.

Moving on to the animals... start looking for soft corals that are NOT photosynthetic in nature. Photosynthetic corals will require the stronger amounts of light and have less room for tolerance of less than perfect conditions. Photosynthetic corals use light to form their primary food source, so if they don't get the proper lighting they starve. The draw back in the lower light corals is that they will need to be fed, which means more water changes and having the proper foods available. This also makes it much more important to provide enough circulation in the tank to be sure all of the corals are getting enough food. The alternative is to target feed each animal. Target feeding isn't what I'd call difficult, though it does take a bit of practice... but it can be quite messy and time consuming. This is something for you to give some thought to as you gather the proper equipment for your new set up.

Don't let the pet store sell you any of the equipment for target feeding corals. If you decide to try your hand at it, it's much cheaper and much EASIER to target feed using regular plastic syringes as are found in places like Fleet Farm and anywhere that caters to farm animal supplies. I always keep a few different sizes on hand depending on the type of food and type of animals I'm feeding. The syringes are easier to control the amount of food being released at a time, easier to clean when you're done, and smaller/easier to store when you're not using them. Super important to know that if you use a syringe be sure after rinsing it thoroughly in clean fresh water under the tap, keep the plunger out of it until you are ready to use it again. If you don't, the rubber plunger will swell and eventually make it difficult to pull up and down, which makes for a mess and struggle to control it. I use the syringes to feed my angelfish fry, cichlid
fry, and corals. It's much more effective than a turkey baster, too.

Live rock. Yes, you will NEED live rock. Typically the amount to shoot for is the same number of lbs of live rock per gallon size of the tank, but if you can fit more in there, go for it. There is no such thing as too much live rock in a marine tank. The more live rock you have the healthier the tank will be and the easier it will be to keep the water chemistry stable. You will want to build some rock structures with your live rock that go from the substrate all the way to the upper 1/4 of the tank. Try to create ledges as well as caves for the fish. Turn the rocks around and really play with them while stacking, trying to create places to anchor your corals when you get them at various levels of the tank. This allows you to position the corals needing more light towards the upper part of the tank while those needing less light can sit lower near the substrate. Avoid all SPS corals if you're going with low light. When putting the live
rock into the tank put the base pieces in BEFORE you add your live sand. This allows the sand to support the rocks, making for a sturdier structure that won't fall/tumble over and kill corals or fish.

Also, when you do first get started, there's a basic protocol for what goes into the tank first and how long before you should be adding anything else. First thing in should be saltwater. If you get the water already premixed be sure to check salinity before moving on to the next step. The salinity in the water needs to be stable and at the right range before live sand, live rock, or any animals can go into the tank. This is also the time to add the heater and get it set for 76 degrees, making sure it holds a steady temp for at least 24 - 48 hrs before adding live sand and live rock. Because the live rock and live sand contain living organisms you need and want in your tank, the water conditions have to be conducive to their survival from the very start. Once you kill those organisms you end up starting over waiting for the rock to "cure" while adding something new to help seed it. That can be a long process (months) to fully complete. If
you're not in a huge hurry to put animals into the tank you can save a bit of money in the beginning by getting 2/3 of your rock as live rock, and then the other 1/3 can be dry "base rock" (which is dried, sometimes bleached, live rock). This will delay adding animals by at least a few weeks but it can save some money. The live rock will serve the purpose of seeding the base rock, but it does take time to fully cure so you'll need to be patient. This process can only be controlled to a certain point, mostly it's a matter of letting it do it's thing at it's own pace.

I can't really offer much comment on your potential cost in creating this set up. That depends on where you are, what prices you're paying per piece, and what animals you decide to keep. Because this is a reef tank there are some things you really don't want to be without, and some things you just can't be without. A basic list for you would be as follows:
Saltwater mixing vat with pump
Saltwater mix (Oceanic is the one I've always had the best results with)
Hydrometer/refractometer (if you're intending this to be a reef I would say it's definitely worth the extra investment to get a refractometer if you are able. The reading is exact vs the hydrometers which are known to be off and need calibrating with the use of a refractometer to be accurate. Because salinity is so vital to the corals as well as fish, being a little off can mean the difference between live and dead animals)
Heater
Filtration (HOB can be used by they are messy in regards to salt creep and tend to need parts replaced more often from the wear & tear of the saltwater on them, sump-requires a drilled tank or accessory overflow kit, canister - will surely need additional power heads in the tank for circulation, canisters alone can be very touchy in keeping proper water conditions and they need to be cleaned out a lot and filled with the proper medias.. avoid any canister <such as fluval> that has a water polisher filter sock in it as these clog quickly in a marine set up)
Test kit for saltwater + a calcium test kit (don't forget the calcium kit, this is also extremely important to monitor in a reef. Too much is just as bad as not enough and testing is the only way to know. Calcium should be checked at least weekly for the first 6 months, then monthly beyond that unless there is a problem that requires more frequent testing. If at some point you ever need to add calcium you will need to test at least every other day for a while.)
Live sand (much better/healthier than dry aragonite sand... stay away from crushed coral in a reef)
Live rock (as much as you can get into the tank but at least 1 lb per gallon of tank size)
Freshwater (DI or RO water will be needed for this, I really don't advise using tap water in a marine tank. Each time you do a water change or have to add water due to evaporation you will need to check the salinity to determine if you need to add saltwater or freshwater to keep your tank salinity stable.)
Proper lighting
Skimmer or lifetime supply of paper towels to do manual skimming. I can teach you how to skim the tank manually with the paper towels but you'll need to practice until you get it down. Expect to do this daily for a tank of that size. If you want suggestions for a skimmer let me know and I'll give you a more detailed list of what is good/not good for that size of a tank.
UV sterilizer (Some people call this optional, but for a reef I consider it vital. Not only will a UV sterilizer help prevent illness/disease issues but it will also help prevent/control some forms of algae that are common and problematic in reef situations)

Once your water, sand, and live rock are in the tank, filtration and heater functioning, expect at least 6 - 8 wks before the tank will be ready for ANY animals. Marine tanks take longer to cycle. The rock will go through some level of die off in the first couple of weeks. This happens every time it changes environments, meaning even if you had 2 tanks side by side, moving rock from one to the other would still cause some level of die off to occur. This will contribute to feeding your bacteria culture during the cycling process, so don't worry, it has its advantages. :-) Marine tanks also tend to cycle faster if you put all or most of the rock in right away when you set it up because each new rock you add after will go through that period of die off and cause a spike in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate as it acclimates over the course of a few weeks. Once the tank is established (usually about 1 yr after set up) the worries of die off from adding
a new piece of rock here and there lessen because the tank can handle that extra spike in ammonia and break it down quick enough to not cause the animals any harm. There will also be a series of algae blooms during cycling. This is normal and I will explain more about those in another post.

Sorry for such a long post but there is so much to understand when setting up a reef. I hope this helps get you started. Please ask any/all questions you have, I am happy to answer them for you. I will check my photo albums when I'm done with this post and see if any of my reef photos are in there. If not, I'll add a few for you so you can see my marine tanks.

Dawn

Dawn Moneyhan
Aquatics Specialist/Nutritionist
To learn more about me go to
http://www.helium.com/users/449334

--- On Mon, 10/29/12, dianne <diavids@gmail.com> wrote:

From: dianne <diavids@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [tropical fish club] any reefers
To: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 29, 2012, 10:44 PM

Hi Dawn,

thanks so much for replying. I'm at the very beginning stage of figuring out what i want to do. Haven't made any decisions about what animals. I know i want some shrimp, snails and a few small fish. I was thinking about do i want live rock or not, which i gather i do need for anything beyond a fish only tank. I also read that its easier to cycle a saltwater tank with live rock. My lighting question really will have to do with cost, while i plan to change my lights (which are very basic and not good beyond in fresh beyond java fern etc) so not good enough for any type of salt setup i'm sure. I have been told that its possible to have some corals that don't need the high end light systems so that is the direction i will be taking for now. i'm going to be doing a lot of reading in the next few weeks trying to see what types of animals i will be able to include. The person who owns the fish store who is the person all the local reefers go too,
told me i should be able to convert my freshwater setup to salt for about $200 which is about all i can afford. I plan to take the slow route in setting up this new tank. i do have a question, is it easy to mix one's own salt water as i know this person at the store does sell the salt mixture but also sells the water all ready mixed and ready for the tank. Which is the best way to go. with fresh i have always used direct from the tap and didn't realize that i would have to let the salt water sit for 24 hours before adding to the tank. (is that right) i think i have a lot to learn.

thanks for listening and i'm sure i'll be sending many questions your way soon

dianne

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