Donna,
I had forgotten about Deb's gold Killiefish (don't even recall what species they were). I do remember the American Flag Killiefish you had, and while I don't remember too much of what you said about their behavior you experienced, I thought they were at least somewhat aggressive. That was the main reason I brought them up again, although maybe they weren't as bad as I thought.
I'm glad you found the earlier account in the 1950's, of the same concept of selling these 'instant fish' kits at least interesting, and while it could have lead to promoting the hobby better if it had been done right, I agree that when a large company promotes such an idea with the sales of these kits without proper maintenance instructions with their sole purpose of just making profits it's just plain irresponsible.
I have to place all the blame on these larger companies looking just to make a buck, with no regard for the life within these eggs they sell or sufficient instructions on how best to succeed in raising these fish -- or even a warning to the yet-to-be hobbyist that it's not as simple as tossing the kit's ingredients into a bowl. While I do understand from past reports, that there were instructions included with these ear;ier kits, I have no idea of just how far they went. While I can't blame the unsuspecting public for jumping on the idea, at least some of this does seem to come back to those kinds of people such as whom Dawn mentioned, that insist on thinking that fish should be maintenance-free, and who refuse to listen to any instructions to the contrary.
As I see it, there are mostly very responsible people in this hobby who, even if they didn't know of the maintenance needed to keep their fish alive when they first started out, they at least seek advice later on when they see they need help -- either through their LFS owner or through groups like ours. Unfortunately though, there are far too many people who go into fish who would rather treat them as disposable, choosing to just replace them as they die off, without further regard for them or how to properly take care of the new ones they keep buying -- and who choose not to seek advice, as their fish deaths mean nothing more to them than throwing out the garbage.
These types of people bear some responsibility in this whole scheme of things, which by misfortune we have no control over. It's for this reason that, while I understand that if it weren't for breeders like Rosario supplying these companies with fish eggs to enable such companies to continue, I really can't blame him in the least. I'm trusting you're not including people like him when saying that people selling the eggs are irresponsible. I see it as the responsibility coming down solely on these large companies looking just to make their profits. With it, I'm hoping that at least some smaller percentage of these kits fell into the hands of enthusiastic fish lovers who had success with them, and which spurred them on to become aquarists; I guess that's about all we can hope for at this stage of the game.
For those not very familiar with Killies and the hatching of their eggs, hatching of them takes a minimum of nearly 3 weeks for those fish of which their habitat doesn't dry out (these fish are not 'Annuals'), and for "Annuals," can take up to 4 to 6 months in the storage of damp peat moss to incubate them. Ideally then, they are prime candidates to be able to be mailed to other hobbyists. Members of the American Killifish Association sell or exchange Killie eggs regularly, although fortunately, the members receiving them are usually responsible enough to see to their well being. Live Killies are also shipped through the mail by members of this organization.
Other national groups, like the American Cichlid Association sell and mail live Cichlids, as do members of the American Livebearers Associatiion sell and mail live Swordtails and Mollies to each other, but again, the recipients are usually responsible hobbyists. Now, if the recipients of any of these fish or eggs were not responsible enough to see to their proper maintenance, I'd hope that we can't put any blame on the breeders as being irresponsible, any more than can Deborah, JoAnne or I be seen as being irresponsible when selling hundreds of Angelfish to the pet shops every month, or when Bill used to raise lots of Discus to supply his LFS's.
We realize, that it's impossible for the hobby to gain hundreds of new hobbyists each and every month, yet there is always a constant demand for these fish -- telling me that lots of them must be dying st the hands of people who either don't know how to take care of them, or -- who view these fish just as being replaceable items to entertain them.
After all, Angelfish have a life span of between 6 and 8 years when properly cared for, and Discus can live even longer. Breeders can only keep LFS's stocked in hopes that at least some of these fish find their way to more caring hobbyist who'll see to their proper maintenance. We know that the percentage of fish that actually make it long-term is small, otherwise there would be no demand for them by the fish shops, but we can only hope for the best. A fish breeder of any types of fish, whether it be Neon Tetras or White Cloud Minnows, would find themselves in the same position, as the LFSs are always selling more and more fish during the "season" (excluding the Summer) to a fish keeping public which doesn't increase that much, although which does have a certain turn-over of would-be hobbyists who keep killing them. Ray
--- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, Donna King <donnalynneking@...> wrote:
>
> Very interesting information. I just remember the gold ones Deb had that got
> quite aggressive when breeding.
>
>
> It just makes me sick that these animals are considered disposable. I don't
> believe the people selling the eggs are any less responsible for what happened
> the these fish. They in my mind should not sell to people who are mass
> marketing animals. Just that should have given them a clue people who didn't
> know how to care for fish were going to get them and they would die.
> Donna
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ray <sevenspringss@...>
>
>
>
>
>
> Many of the Nothobranchius species' males are noted for being hard drivers of
> the females when spawning, but this behavior is in efforts to preserve
> themselves as a species when considering their temporary pools dry up in about 9
> months and they need to deposit enough eggs for the following season to be able
> to continue as a species. The F. toddi is a Semi-Annual and behaves as such for
> the same reason. I don't know what possesses your American Flag Fish Killie
> (Jordanella floridae) to behave aggressively when you had them, as they're not
> Annuals, but unfortunately, some 'Pupfish' such as this species will behave
> aggressively. For the most part though, as I've already mentioned previously,
> I'll reiterate that most Killies are quite peaceful. You need to just try the
> old favorite Lyretail Killiefish (Aphyosemion australe) -- which has been in the
> hobby over 100 years -- to see how "more normal" Killiefish behave. There are
> many similar Killies which are just as peaceful, so there's no reason to give
> them a bad rap because of a few. Ray
>
> --- In tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com, Donna King <donnalynneking@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.toysforoutdoors.co.uk/#/magic-fish/4539744261
> > Hey all have you seen this on the market.
> > Its killie fish eggs called "magic powder".
> > At least the care instructions are better than the Grow a Frog kit where they
> > tell you to keep the frogs in tiny cubes and don't explain anything about the
>
> > need to change the water. I have a hard time believing you would be able to
> > hatch enough BBS to feed 6 fry.
> >
> > I wonder if the killie groups have seen these. I've seen adds for these
> >running
> >
> > on Qubo (kids channel) .
> >
> >
> > I hope they are a breed that don't grow and get mean like so many of them do.
> > Donna
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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